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Anders Behring Breivik: evil but not insane.

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by Steve_uk, Apr 18, 2012.

  1. Steve_uk

    Steve_uk Well-Known Member BANNED

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    For the next ten weeks the world's attention will be focussed on the Oslo Tinghus courthouse as self- confessed murderer of 77 Anders Behring Breivik uses his propaganda stage and acts out his part in a drama worthy of Henrik Ibsen, yet whose consequences for the families and the wider community remain all too real.

    He was born in Oslo on February 13 1979 to a diplomat father and nurse mother, two professions from which one might expect any ensuing progeny to have the best pedigree, and on the face of it there appears to be some truth in this. However Breivik himself would later describe his childhood as "privileged but with way too much freedom",this due to two circumstances. Firstly his parents divorced when Anders was just one year old, and though father would support the child materially and kept contact with the boy through his adolescence it was the mother who won and retained custody of the child, and whose inadequacy would be brought to the attention of Norwegian Social Services when he was four years old. Whether the mother Wenche had her own personal problems or was a schemer in the vein of Hedde Gabler is hard to ascertain, and further elucidation may be forthcoming when she testifies later in the trial. Breivik himself makes scant mention of his parents, though they were both liberal-minded who went along with the policy of multiculturalism Breivik came to hate. We thus begin to see a picture emerging of a young man without a father,looking round for role models,and a weak mother guilty of no more than neglect.

    This parental vacuum was filled with petty acts of vandalism common to a minority of today's teenagers-graffiti,spray painting and shoplifting. It would be a symptom of his attention-seeking, a call for help,when tragically there was none. He would join the right-wing Progress Party in 1999 at the age of 20, but this was mainstream, and no more anti-immigrant than modern-day President Sarcozy banning the burka in France,or Margaret Thatcher's fears in 1978 that Britain was becoming "swamped" with immigrants, or Gordon Brown's "British jobs for British workers" gaffe. Speculation has included his involvement in a fight with an immigrant who broke his nose, or being rejected by a girlfriend in favour of a Muslim, but I doubt anyone really knows how hatred on this level is engendered. By all accounts Breivik was not a bully but quite the reverse:he would act the part of the Good Samaritan in school, in his working life he was kind and considerate whilst working in customer services, and had the drive and ambition to found his own computer company.

    Yet below the surface we now know he had been planning the Utøya attacks for years.The plan, which he was later to describe as "cruel but necessary",was to bomb the Norwegian Oil Ministry as a distraction, then catch a ferry to Utøya island and massacre as many youngsters as possible. These adolescents, some as young as 14 years old were not innocent victims in Breivik's mind, because they were members of the governing Labour Party's youth wing, and therefore in his eyes no better than the Hitler Youth of the 1930s. He would therefore feel no remorse for either outrage: the Norwegian Oil Ministry was a target because it had denied an Israeli firm a state oil contract some time back(the attacks took place on the 65th anniversary of the King David Jerusalem Hotel bombing),the youth represented the future of Breivik's country which he wanted to deviate from the policy of multiculturalism, conveniently forgetting that many of the current wave of immigrants were as a result of Western foreign policy in Iraq and ethnic cleansing in Bosnia and Herzegovina.

    The courtroom circus is in town, replete with smiling state prosecutors, bowing psychiatrists and handshakes, along with bragging defendant as only a Scandinavian country with the innate confidence in itself and its system of justice can produce.Yes, Anders Behring Breivik will get more than his day in court. Yet it is too simplistic to say, as one team of experts has ascertained,that this man is insane. Evil yes,insane no. It will be interesting to hear the testimony from all quarters as the trial progresses.
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2016
  2. hotspur

    hotspur Active Member

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    Er,''too simplistic'' to say that he is insane...as stated by a team of experts,Steve?
    Id say its the other way around-too simplistic to say hes evil.
    and anyway,surely to be truly evil hed have to be doing it for NO reason AT ALL.(other than pleasure)
    I dont thing anyone doubts that he truly beleives he has done GOOD,therefore,Steve,on this occaision,I am on the side of the experts:)
  3. Steve_uk

    Steve_uk Well-Known Member BANNED

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    Two sets of experts have already differed as to whether Breivik was sane or not. He would have undergone psychiatric testing and it's fairly obvious to me that he knew exactly what he was doing,hence his saying his actions were "cruel but necessary". He is playing to the gallery and finally receiving the attention he never got as a child. It's just too convenient for any judicial authorities to label someone as psychotic or insane,because then their arguments can be rubbished and ultimately ignored.
  4. hotspur

    hotspur Active Member

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    Experts disagreeing:eek:eek::duh!?
    Quelle surprise-thing is if there are experts who believe hes insane,I believe we should err on their side...cos its possible he is.I mean,how would you like it,Steve,if,one day,you became insane,started posting onbetting forums...and,I dunno,went out and shot the Queens corgis!?Wouldnt you want to be given the benefit of the doubt,IF,only IF ,a team of experts said you were nuts?:)
    However,you raise a more interesting point-the idea that the government wants him to be found insane so that the issues dont need to be discussed.
    But,hang on-what if the issue WERE discussed-how do you think that would be a bad thing for the government?
  5. hotspur

    hotspur Active Member

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    You know,at the risk of being gravely misunderstood,I think its almost inevitable that,at some point in the future some western nations will,to some extent or other be greatlly influenced by Islam.
    I believe we even have a word for this,
    democracy
  6. ONEDUNME

    ONEDUNME Administrator

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    Ohhhh so close. I almost made it through the whole of one of your sentences there Steve. Almost.

    This time it's not the boring topic that I object to. No, in fact this may well be one of the more interesting topics that you've raised a thread on (though, granted, the competition for "most interesting" wouldn't be all that strong). What aggravated my irritation gland is the use of the hyperbolic ......


    Granted it is someone sensitive at the moment as I've had to endure repeatedly being told that "The whole world is trembling with anticipation for the Olympic Games to arrive". It isn't is it? The whole world? Everyone in the world is counting down the days and hours to the olympics? Not very likely. Half the world maybe? No. There is probably someone in every country in the world that's looking forward to it (even if it's only the family of the competitors) that's true. but the whole world isn't obsessed with its arrival.

    Even in the country that's hosting it, I'd be surprised if over half the population could name half a dozen competitors. Don't get me wrong, people will sit and stare at bits of it on the box in the same way that some people will sit and nod off with the tennis on during Wimbledon but the media would have us believe that the country is chomping at the bit and ticking off the days on our Team GB calendars.

    I love my football but the sports media are guilty of the same shit with the world cup. As if the entire planet has stopped stock-still for three weeks enthralled by every game. Bollocks. Hard as it is for us football fans to believe, there are folk who don't even know who's playing when the final is on. The event is dramatic enough for those who have an interest. Why feel the need to spout complete bollocks in order to try to make it more dramatic?

    It annoys the fuck out of me. So you see, that's why I got as far as "the world's attention" and I had to stop and boot my cat in the face. The world's attention will not be on this courthouse will it?

    I've seen this geyser briefly on the news doing the old salute thingy. I've heard he's killed some people. I'm aware that he's probably not a good man. There my interest ends. It's of no consequence to me why he did it or what happens to his bad ass. I most certainly won't be focussed on getting the lastest updates in real-time. And I can't help but thing that there probably isn't only me on this big planet who's thinking that way.
  7. Steve_uk

    Steve_uk Well-Known Member BANNED

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    I'm not quite sure myself how the trial will be handled and there are conflicting reports as to whether Breivik's testimony will be blacked out or not. We don't seem to be doing too badly so far as he's had a propaganda coup extolling his Knights Templar video,saying he's had no regrets and his melodramatic call to be acquitted or to receive the death penalty. The only thing so far not to have been reported is how the 77 people died,presumably to spare the feeling of the relatives,when I would have thought this was the one thing that maybe should have been reported so the general public could become engaged with the trial and realize the full bloodiness of the atrocities,instead of the sanitized cotton-wool atmosphere we have at the moment.

    Yes the authorities have a fine line to tread between freedom of speech and giving Breivik open house to cause offence with his racist views. There is the danger of copycat attacks as sometimes occurs with these procedures,such as the Port Arthur shootings in Australia in April 1996 committed by Martin Bryant,whom his defence lawyer claimed was influenced by the Dunblane massacre one month earlier. Whilst I may have been guilty of over-exaggeration this trial is going to last for weeks,with 90 witnesses for the prosecution and 40 for his defence.One just hopes that at the end of the process this man will have no lasting influence on either government policy or the lone wolf,and that he is put away,whether insane or not,for the rest of his natural life.
  8. ONEDUNME

    ONEDUNME Administrator

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    Thank you Steve, I accept your apology.
  9. hotspur

    hotspur Active Member

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    ODM has a cat-one hopes its not metaphorical.It just seems soooo right.

    btw Steve,Ive just completed todays Times and theres an article by a mind expert in there who says pretty much what youve said...therefore I take back what Ive said.

    (btw,do you read the Times?):)
  10. Colbro

    Colbro Well-Known Member

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  11. Steve_uk

    Steve_uk Well-Known Member BANNED

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    I didn't read today's Times no,but I will check out the article if you could give me the name of the psychiatrist. I am not in the profession,though my dad had a degree in psychology and maybe something of that has rubbed off on me. Of course the experts are going to milk this trial for all it's worth,as it's all run at taxpayer's expense,yet I still find it fascinating-the nature versus nurture debate and the whole multiculturalism issue which has been swept under the carpet by politicians,who are too frightened to have an open debate.
  12. hotspur

    hotspur Active Member

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    Gosh,theyre talking about the explosion of erotic fiction on Newsnight!Any chance of a question/statement about that Steve?
  13. hotspur

    hotspur Active Member

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    Simon Baron-Cohen ,Prof of Developmental Psychology at Univ.of Cambridge
  14. hotspur

    hotspur Active Member

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    If you dont need to get up early tomorrow,Steve,this documentary on bbc 2 looks compelling and may be up your alley
  15. Steve_uk

    Steve_uk Well-Known Member BANNED

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    I'll have to check these things out..can't find the Times article online yet..as for erotic fiction,it's not really my genre,but once you've read D.H Lawrence's "Lady Chatterley's Lover" published in 1928 you've read and heard it all..
  16. hotspur

    hotspur Active Member

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    I really dont think politicians are ''frightened'' to have an open debate about immigration/multiculturalism-especially in Scandinavia.
    After all they already know what the arguments are-what is it that anyone can possibly say that will be so frightening.
    Surely,if enough people in any country are against immigration AND thats their MAIN concern the far right would gain ground....but they dont?
  17. hotspur

    hotspur Active Member

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    lol,Ive read some of LCL....and,I tend to disagree-my favourite erotic book is First Training,a wordsworth classic,to be sure
  18. Steve_uk

    Steve_uk Well-Known Member BANNED

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    I think the issue was that Norway always was that much more apart from its neighbours and came to multiculturalism later than other Western democracies.The indigenous population may welcome economic migrants who work hard and contribute to the country,but there's always the danger of a backlash when for example Somali refugees are welcomed,with the best of intentions,yet some have difficulty assimilating through language problems,some will experience blatant racism and discrimination in employment and others just give up looking for a job and end up on welfare. I am not blaming the immigrants,refugees or economic migrants,all of whom seem to have been lumped into the one category. All I would say is that it's not surprising some of these incomers end up with difficulties faced with the problems they have to deal with making a new start in a new country,and politicians have not had the courage to discuss this openly or alleviate the problems. Far right parties have gained ground over the past few years,as they have whipped up this issue for their own ends.http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/07/24/us-norway-multiculturalism-idUSTRE76N2O020110724
  19. hotspur

    hotspur Active Member

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    havnt read the article yet but surely if the far right are gaining ground wouldnt this force the issues to be discussed?
  20. Steve_uk

    Steve_uk Well-Known Member BANNED

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    Possibly but you have to remember all elected politicians have got it good and the last thing they want to do is rock the boat..

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